Broken Dreams Club Interview: Cindy

No band has done more to draw attention to San Francisco’s nascent “fog pop” scene than Cindy, the brainchild of singer-songwriter Karina Gill. Characterized by hushed vocals, unhurried, ambling tempos and proudly lo-fi recording techniques, Cindy’s songs evoke that vivid, dusky moment when one first wakes up, still half-immersed in a dream. 

After receiving critical acclaim for the band’s previous two full-length albums, Cindy is set to release a new EP, “Swan Lake,” through Tough Love Records on October 4. The band will also embark on a major UK/European tour later this year.

Broken Dreams Club recently caught up with Gill to discuss the upcoming tour, Cindy’s new EP and some endearing moments that helped inspire that record. 

So…it’s been another memorable year for the band. You toured the US with Horsegirl, are putting out this new EP and have another big UK/EU jaunt lined up later this year. What’s been your impression so far of the year? Must be exciting times?

The Horsegirl tour was really fun. I feel really lucky that Ground Control Touring invited us for that. I had never really toured the US, other than some small tours in Southern California. To be able to go to the East Coast and the Midwest and cities like Toronto was not something that I would have ever imagined doing. We were presented with a great opportunity to be brought along on a really nice tour that was already set up. All we had to do was basically show up and play. Horsegirl are such lovely people, and I really loved seeing them play every night. I got a sneak preview of music they're working on, so it was really this great experience. And my current bandmates are just a dream to travel with, so it was great. Other than it being crazy hot. I mean, I'm from the East Coast, so I understand. But, you know, my California bandmates were a little shocked. 

That must have been a pretty fascinating bill with Horsegirl—they’re kind of known for their outsized noise, and well, that’s not exactly Cindy’s forte.

Cindy usually plays with bands that are quite different from us, and I generally prefer that. The shows I've played where there was an effort to book us with somebody who is like us end up feeling confusing to me. But for the Horsegirl shows, the crowds were really receptive. There were some people who were there to see us, which is, you know, wonderful and amazing, and I think Horsegirl fans are known for being open minded. Everyone was extremely receptive and warm and friendly. It was really nice. 

You’ve discussed before how you started this musical endeavor a little later in life, watching closely while others pursued this field. When you decided to go into this thing, did you anticipate you’d be where you are today, as this really admired, respected and established musical act?

Definitely not. A lot of opportunities have sort of come to me, and I feel very lucky for that, honestly. I definitely never had ambitions around music, aside from, maybe the ambition to record a song as well as I can or whatever. I think that's pretty common around here with Bay Area bands. There are some exceptions, definitely, but most of the bands I know are mainly interested in developing aesthetically and creatively within our community. There's less of an outward looking feeling. And I certainly felt right at home with that. As you said, I haven't been playing music all my life—this is a relatively recent thing for me. It wasn't like I was, 14 years old, dreaming of touring. But now that it’s happened, I feel super lucky and grateful that I get to do this.

So, the new album—“Swan Lake”—obviously has a very famous title, but this has nothing to do with Russian Ballet, correct? What’s the significance of this name to you?

The song Swan Lake on the EP is referring to man-made lake in a park in Birmingham, England. Last time Cindy was over there, we all went for this walk, and it was full of conversations, and it was just this kind of magical hour or so. We ended up at this lake, and there were all these swan paddle boats in the lake, and they almost all seemed oversized. It was kind of bizarre looking. So the title refers to that place and that experience. But it is also meant to ring bells of that ballet. Even if you don't know that the title is a ballet,  it conjures something from the past—it sounds familiar. I think in my songs, I do that a lot--add these kinds of ringing bells that maybe are not entirely transparent, but have associations that add dimensions to the things we say, the things we hear. 

Now were these songs culled from the “Why Not Now” sessions, or were these written with an EP in mind?

They were all written after “Why Not Now.” I started recording them with just the idea of doing a 7”, because I like them—I think they're cool. But, apparently, record labels do not like 7” records. So I was thinking of doing a 7”, or maybe two, but then once the idea of doing a tour started evolving, it made more sense to record more songs that were new, so we could put together something that was a little bit more substantial of an offering. It went from being maybe I'll do a 7”just for fun, to ‘okay, well, I have, you know, like eight songs and I can find six of them are ready to be recorded.’ They all ended up being recorded in different ways. Oli [Lipton], my bandmate, has a great recording setup in his home. So, we did some there. We recorded a little with Robby Joseph, who helped us in the past. So yeah, they were all kind of put together in different manners. The “Swan Lake” song I recorded at home on a four -track, as you can probably hear.

You mentioned how there's not a whole lot of love for 7” records, but EPS are kind of a lost art as well. There is such a great history of bands with amazing EPs, though. What’s your relationship with EPs? And why was it important for you to release these songs in this format?

I don't know that I have a specific relationship with EPs, per se, but I definitely tend toward less is more. I don't need to hear a set that’s an hour and 20 minutes long or anything. And Cindy's MO has always been about what is happening now—about what is available. That’s not because I have any principled stand on this, it’s simply because it's how it works for me. I’ve never put together an album with this agenda in mind that I have to have 10 songs. That’s never been the case. It's always been—I have songs, they work together, here's a record., I think it's kind of just a reflection of what was real for us. I had a pool of songs that I could then bring to my bandmates and at the time. I had made demos of a lot of them, and they were just kind of ready to go somewhere. I tend to record things and release them pretty swiftly. That has its drawbacks and sometimes I wish I weren't like that, but that's how I am. I just want to do what's happening now and then do the next thing. 

Yeah, and you talked about workshopping these demos. I know there is deep love for demo recordings for certain San Francisco bands (Sad Eyed Beatniks and April Magazine, for example.) There is an appreciation for embracing the imperfections of recordings and in many ways, I associate EPs with some of those demo recordings. Do you share that same kind of appreciation for demos?

Well, I think for me, it's just kind of what I do. I suppose I could adopt another way, but it has no appeal for me at all. I wish I were somebody who could make things more perfect. I wish I was somebody who could, you know, work on something until it has a less vulnerable form. But I'm just not that person. I also think people would be surprised by some of the recordings that you think are effortless. Those other Bay Area albums you mentioned that are similar to us—they are certainly not effortless and nor is Cindy. There is a lot of labor that goes into our work. It may be a different kind of labor—one that is not about the polish, but more about the source. And it’s not this decided-upon route. It's just an expression of what works for me, and I think likewise for the other bands you mentioned. There's this desire to keep moving and not kind of be outward facing and product oriented. We want something that is kind of invulnerable. Something that’s so shiny and bright you can't look at it straight. 

You said that six of you took part in the recording sessions. The Cindy band lineup has gone through some evolutions over the years, but you seemed to have settled on a pretty steady core at this moment, right?

Well, the lineup right now is definitely amazing—I feel so lucky. The live lineup is made up of folks who are able to tour. So there Oli Lipton and Will Smith, both from Now and then Staizsh Rodrigues from Children Maybe Later, who is also doing another project now called Peace Frog. So the four of us have become a band in the sense that we tour, and you know, we've made a set that works for us. But the Cindy sound that’s on the recording also has Stanley Martinez, and Mike Ramos. Again, I’m so lucky that I live in this place where they're all these amazing musicians. And even if someone can't be a touring member because they have other obligations or whatever, you know, they are still willing to contribute to a recording. “Why Not Now?” was full of people from the community who contributed. 

Some of these songs on “Swan Lake” have pretty interesting origin stories. The opening track, “All Weekend” for instance, traces back to an inspiring elevator ride, right? What was the exact genesis and inspiration for that song?

Yeah, a couple years ago now, I was on an elevator in the Main Branch Public Library here in San Francisco, and there was another person on the elevator. It was just the two of us and they were having some non-consensus reality experience. I found myself kind of enraptured by how totally enraptured they were. They were having some experience that was totally immersive, and I was just there to get a book. There was something about that person, and that experience that stuck with me over years.

Every Cindy album seems to contain a stirring instrumental track and this EP is no different. “The Birds in Birmingham Park” is this gorgeous, ambling stroll of the song. What attracts you to these songs with no words?

Most of my songs are really lyric-driven and part of me wishes that I could get away from that, but it is kind of what I have to offer, largely. But I do love instrumental music. That song is very much a mood. I think all my songs strive to capture something like a mood that has its own sort of logic, its own emotional logic. And that song is also about walking through that park in Birmingham. I mean, it's not about anything specific, but that song kind of comes, in some sense, from that experience. I did actually write lyrics for it originally, but they seemed extraneous, so I shifted away from that, and just had this kind of feeling and progression and structure. And then Oli was able to elaborate it so beautifully on guitar. It just became something where the music was able to communicate the mood far better than the words could. 

The title track is a nice wrinkle for the album, with its spoken word delivery. How did you arrive at that kind of arrangement?

That was a really spontaneous demo. I’ve done similar things. There's a song on “Free Advice” that's basically spoken. It feels kind of funny, I suppose, and makes me slightly squeamish, but sometimes that's just what it is. And for that particular song, I was thinking about different kinds of associative thinking. And it just felt like there was no place for a melody. I just had that structure and tone and I recorded it really fast. Usually, I think through songs a bit more before I record them, but that was just kind of spontaneous. 

You have this really big tour coming up in Europe and the UK coming up. This will be your first trip to Europe, but your second trip to the UK. Are you all pretty excited for that?

The UK tour was a year and a half ago, and that was my first international tour. I feel really privileged to get to go back to the UK, and, you know, and play at venues where they want to have us. We get to return to London and Glasgow and Manchester, so that's cool. And then Europe—I mean, I'm really looking forward to it. I'm going to places I've never been. I’ve never been to Berlin or Amsterdam or Rotterdam, Geneva, all these places. So, it's exciting. And Ruben [Myles Tyghe], who runs Outsider Artists, just does a great job of making the tour make sense—making it financially viable and practical and doable for a band at our level where we're not obviously playing massive venues. I'm really looking forward to it. I mean, I'm slightly terrified, but that's normal. 

And are there plans for a possible headlining Cindy tour domestically? 

Nothing planned. We get back mid-November, so probably for this year, that's going to be it. But we’ve gotten invited to different parts of the US. And I think once I recover from this upcoming tour, I might have the bandwidth to think about maybe an East Coast tour. We’ve also had some really lovely invitations from the South. I don't know that I could book a tour in the US on my own and keep my sanity, but I could definitely try. 

I know the EP is coming out in a couple of weeks, but do you have plans on writing a full length album as well? 

I mean, these songs keep showing up. And I do like recording, especially when it can be at someone's home or a really comfortable place, like Robby’s studio. So yeah, I would totally embark on another collection if I had the songs that made sense to do that. But no immediate plans at the moment. 

Other updates worth highlighting? Album news, announcements? Anything happening with Flowertown?

Nothing concrete. Mike and I are good friends and Flowertown is always sort of there in the background. He just went to Japan as Tony J and both of us are in Sad-Eyed Beatniks, which has been really fun. I don't know that Flowertown has any concrete plans, but when those songs are being written, they tend to be like a faucet. So, if we start again, we’ll probably get some songs recorded quickly. I’ll keep you posted on that. 

“Swan Lake” is out Friday on Tough Love Records.